Batgung - Moving to Hong Kong FAQs

How to meet people?

mrb — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 09:42:44 +0000

We've been asked before about this. Our less than earth-shattering advice has been to join a group of people with similar interests, eg a club or association, or an evening class.

Established clubs are a good place to meet existing residents of Hongkong. Signing up for beginners' classes in Chinese seems a good way to meet up with other new arrivals.

Last week's copy of 'The List' magazine was titled 'Get a new hobby', and had a good list of the different groups in Hong Kong. Their website doesn't have a copy of that issue, but they do have a directory of clubs and associations. Could be a good place to start if you're wondering what you could sign up for.

The cost of living in Hong Kong, part III

Mr Tall — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 01:00:00 +0000

In this stage of my exploration of the cost of living in Hong Kong, we get out of the supermarkets and check out some of the other day-to-day expenses expatriates face in this costly city.

If you're interested in the earlier price comparisons I did for food, you can find them here and here.

In this installment, note that there are fewer direct comparisons to be made, since many of the costs I've surveyed are more or less fixed at a single level, e.g. utility charges.

So what stands out this time? What's interesting to me are the contrasts. That is, Hong Kong is incredibly expensive in some ways, remarkably cheap in others.

First, you'll see that the conventional wisdom you hear in Hong Kong is right on target: accommodation and international schools are very expensive indeed. Cars are also very expensive to run and maintain.

The cost of a car seems to be especially burdensome when you contrast it with one of Hong Kong's greatest bargains: taxis, and public transport in general.

Domestic help is also very inexpensive. It's worth noting here that I've included a separate category for 'expats salary' for domestic helper: that is, many expats pay their helpers quite a bit more than the government-mandated minimum, whereas (proportionately) far fewer local Chinese employers do.

Finally, a couple of methodological notes before we get started with the numbers.

For accommodation, my methodology was pretty simple. I used gohome.com's power search function to try to find rental properties that fit criteria for square footage and geographical location, then did a seat-of-the-pants calculation of an average price range. If you really do go flat-hunting in any of these areas, you're almost certain to find outliers beyond both ends of the range I've stated. I've also made things easier for myself by limiting the search to flats located on 'middle floors'; flats on lower floors will be cheaper on average, those in higher floors more expensive (sometimes very significantly so).

Second, note that the utilities figures I've included reflect the averages for the Tall family only. For electricity, the lower number is for winter, the higher for summer. Our flat is about 900 square feet, and we're pretty sparing with the air conditioning, so electicity bills for bigger flats that are air-conditioned all summer will be far higher, e.g. 2-3K/month, or even more.

As before, I've listed all prices in Hong Kong dollars first, then in US dollars.

Communications
	Mid-budget	High budget
Telephone line, monthly fee	110.00/14.10 (basic line rental)	166.00/21.28 (basic line + lots of options)
Mobile phone, monthly fee	78.00/10.00 (basic 1000-minutes/month plan)	488.00/62.56 (3G w/unlimited data transfers)
Broadband Internet	238.00/30.50 3M service	289.00/37.05 18M service + several TV channels
Charge for local calls	Free and unlimited
Domestic help
	Mid-budget	High budget
Hourly rate for cleaning	60.00/7.69 Local Chinese part-time cleaner	75.00/9.61 Merry Maids Clearning Service (4-hour minimum charge of 300.00/38.46)
Full-time Filipino or Indonesian domestic helper, monthly wages	3,400/436 +400/51 monthly government levy	4,000-6,000/513-769 *'Expat' salary for helpers
Utilities, monthly charges
Electricity	300-600/38.46-76.92
Gas	400/51.28
Water	150/19.23
Schools, fees for 2007-08 school year, except where noted
	Primary grades	Secondary grades
English Schools Foundation schools (UK-style curriculum)	54,300/6,962	85,000/10,897
Hong Kong International School (American curriculum)	120,400/15,436	139,027/17,824
Australian International School	83,000/10,641	95,800-100,700/12,282-12,910
German-Swiss International School	106,480/13,651	112,480/14,421
Chinese International School	109,200/14,000	128,800-130,700/16,513-16,756
Yew Chung International School	128,535/16,479	112,000/14,359 (2006 price)
Cars
	Initial cost, new	Annual licensing fee
Compact (1000-1499cc)	145,000/18,590 Toyota Corolla	3,929/504
Family (1500-2499cc)	216,000/27,692 Toyota Camry	5,794/743
Deluxe (2500cc and up)	586,000/75,128 Toyota Crown	7,664/982
Gasoline, 1 liter	13.70/1.76
Taxis
Taxis, flagfall	15.00/1.92 (covers initial 2 kilometers)
Taxis, rate per additional kilometer	1.40/.18 (also add 1.40/XX for each 1 minute waiting time)
Taxi fare, airport to city center	~320-350/41-45
Other public transport
	Typical short distance	Typical long distance
Bus	~4.00-5.00/0.51-0.64	~13.00/1.67 (cross-harbor tunnel bus)
MTR (subway)	~4.50-5.50/0.57-0.69	~13.00/1.67 (Kowloon-HK Island)
Ferry	2.20/0.28 (Star Ferry, Central to TST)	22.20/2.85 (Fast ferry, Central to Lantau Island, weekday)
Tram	2.00/0.26, all distances
Housing
Monthly rent for 1000 square feet, middle floor, in:
Mid-levels	25,000-35,000/3,205-4,487
Pokfulam	22,000-30,000/2,821-3,846
Western/Sai Ying Poon	22,000-25,000/2,821-3,205
Shatin	16,500-20,000/2,115-2,564
Tseung Kwan O	~20,000/2,564
Monthly rent for 2000 square feet, middle floor, in:
Mid-levels	45,000-80,000/5,769-10256
The Peak	60,000-85,000/7,692-10,897
Stanley (low floor only)	~50,000/6,410
Repulse Bay	60,000-75,000/7,692-9,615

I'm very interested in hearing reader reactions/getting contributions on any of these cost categories, and in adding new ones.

We've also got much more information on schools, domestic helpers, accommodation and other FAQs for those moving to Hong Kong, so check them out.

What is a fair salary in Hong Kong?

mrb — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 01:00:00 +0000

If you’ve been offered a job here, you’ve no doubt asked yourself this question.

Here are some tips to help you reach an answer.

You probably have a better idea what you’re worth at home, so let’s start with a simple comparison of take-home pay. Let’s say you work in the UK, and earn GBP60K a year. The company in Hong Kong is offering you HK$60K a month.

How many months in a year?

Local salaries are often quoted on a monthly basis, so make sure you know how many months of pay you can expect to receive each year. Many companies pay thirteen months of salary, with the 13th month paid around Chinese New Year. Some will not commit to that, but say they pay an annual bonus to all staff. In that case, ask what the bonus has been for, say, the last three years. If you work in the local office of an international firm, you’ll be more likely to receive a flat 12 months' pay a year.

For this example, assume your new employer pays 13 months' salary per year.

Sterling is currently strong, so we’ll use an exchange rate of GBP1 = HK$15. Then the Hong Kong salary of HK$60K a month is equivalent to 60K x 13 = HK$780K a year, or GBP 52K a year. So at it looks as though you’d be taking a cut in gross salary if you move here.

Take-home pay

One of Hong Kong’s attractions is its low tax rate, so it’s worth including that in your calculations. A UK tax calculator shows that if your gross salary is GBP60K, your take-home pay would be about GBP 41K.

If we put the HK$780K annual salary into the Hong Kong tax calculator, our take-home pay would be HK$675K, or GBP 45K. So that makes the Hong Kong offer look better.

Anything left at the end of the month?

You know what you’ll be paid, now what can you expect to pay? To get a feel for how much you’ll spend on the basics, take a look at Mr Tall’s recent survey of local prices. His message is that if you don’t demand to live exactly how you live at home, daily living costs in Hong Kong needn't be more than your current expenses.

Except if you have children.

Then you’ll need to find them places at a local international school, where typical annual fees range from HK$80K to HK$130K (GBP 5K – 9K).

The other big expense will be accommodation.

Hong Kong has a huge range of accommodation available, so in theory you could rent somewhere that costs what you currently pay, or is as big as where you currently live. But not both; e.g. a two-bedroom flat at the Western end of Hong Kong island rents for about HK$12K (GBP 800) a month, and has around 440 sq ft of useable space. If you’re single or a young couple and don’t expect to spend much time in the flat, that’s ok. If you have a family you’ll likely want somewhere bigger, and more expensive.

The package

It used to be that the expenses for schooling and accommodation as well as costs for relocation would be taken care of by the employer. When you added these all up, the value of the total employment package would be much greater than the basic salary. However, it’s hard to justify working in Hong Kong as any sort of ‘hardship posting’ these days.

One of our readers Fiona works in HR, and explains:

Compensation is moving along the lines of 'all cash' in Hong Kong, i.e. pay is determined for the job and there's no real delineation for cash allowances within the total cash approach, though there is still often a packaging breakdown that allows the individual to reduce taxation by offering a housing allowance.

The days of housing/education and so on relating to family size are beginning to be a way of the past....the approach being that a job commands a certain level of compensation and how you spend that is up to you. And in line with this personal family decisions no longer have such an impact on an employee's cost to company -- the basic concept being the job is worth 100k a month and that's what we will pay, in total, leaving the individual to make spending choices. Great for the single guy/gal, not so great for the employee with a family.

By all means raise these costs as part of your negotiations. If the employer has no choice but hire someone from overseas, they are probably already prepared to cover these costs to get you to move. But if they are choosing between you and an equally-qualified local candidate, it’s going to be very difficult for them to justify paying you much in the way of extra expat perks.

All work and no play?

Don’t forget to pay attention to the number of vacation days you’re offered, as local companies typically start at 10 days a year. On the plus side, Hong Kong is generous with public holidays – up to 16 days a year. Still, if you plan to travel home once a year and make trips around the region, you’ll need all the vacation days you can get.

So what’s fair?

Coming back to that original question, what’s a fair salary? It depends whether your main goal is to work in Hong Kong, or to get a better salary.

Maybe you have a burning desire to live overseas, or you see that Asia/China exposure now will be very valuable in your future career. In these cases, getting the job and visa is probably more important to you than the actual salary. First you'll want to follow the advice above to make make sure you can afford to live here. Also make sure you aren’t underselling yourself, by checking the typical current local salaries for your job. Manpower produce annual salary surveys for a range of industries, and are a good starting point. Also check job advertisements to see what is being offered for similar positions. Try The South China Morning Post's classified section, jobsdb.com, recruitonline.com, and hkjobs.com.

But if you’re being headhunted away from a job you like, and there will be lots of upheaval in relocating your family, only you can know how big a jump in salary will make it worthwhile.

If you’ve recently been through the negotiations for a job in Hong Kong, or if you work in HR locally, do you have any advice to share with our readers?

Regards, MrB

More on the cost of living in Hong Kong

Mr Tall — Thu, 17 May 2007 01:00:00 +0000

A few weeks ago I introduced a new component in our set of articles on the cost of living in Hong Kong. In that first installment, I compared the prices of fresh produce and meats in Hong Kong's markets, ordinary supermarkets, and high-end 'expat-oriented' food halls.

In this installment, I concentrate on some 'non-fresh' food items, and some day-to-day toiletries and things. Since quite a few of these items aren't available in Hong Kong's wet markets, I've cut out the first column in my table. We'll just compare prices in typical neighborhood supermarkets, and the expat shopping meccas. I've again consciously avoided selecting either the very cheapest products from the supermarket (I've chosen instead brands I think I or other expats might be happy with) or the most expensive options from the expat places (if you try this, the prices just go through the roof -- for example, I could have included the straight-from-the-aging-cask Italian olive oil I sampled at Great; it only sets you back HKD720/USD92.30 per litre).

In general, you will see that for food and household supplies, the big price differentials between Hong Kong's ordinary supermarkets and its 'expat' supermarkets still hold true. The difference for the basket of household goods is really eye-catching; the 'expat' items are over five times as costly as the ordinary supermarket stuff, plus you get one less toilet roll -- and you never know when you're going to wish you had that!

The happy exception to this general rule seems to be alcoholic drinks. As you can see from the numbers in the table below, there's little significant difference, especially for wine and hard liquor. It seemed to me that the expat stores mark up beers just a bit more than the supermarkets, but it's not that significant. Buying booze therefore is much more about availability (i.e., where can I find my very own special brands?) and looking for sales, which can indeed be cause for rejoicing, and much stocking up. I don't buy alcohol all that often, so I wonder if any readers know (from hard-earned experience, of course) whether the supermarkets are more likely to put wine/beer/liquor on sale than the expat stores? The bad news about booze is that the likely reason its prices are so uniform across Hong Kong is that it's so heavily taxed, and therefore so costly already.

Three other notes before you get started: First, for several items, I've quoted prices from a brand called 'Select'. This is local supermarket chain ParkNShop's current 'house' brand; it's from the UK, and most of the 'Select' items I've bought have been just fine in terms of quality. Wellcome has a similar house brand, called 'First Choice', from Australia. It also seems to be perfectly good. Second, note that I've again pro-rated items to a standard measure, e.g. 1 kg of frozen chicken. You likely won't actually be able to buy an exactly-1 kg frozen chicken from either source, of course! Third, prices are listed first in Hong Kong dollars, then in US dollars for comparative convenience.

Off-the-shelf food items
	Mid-budget (HKD/USD)	High-budget (HKD/USD)
White rice, 1 kg	7.60/0.97 Kam Heung (Thai) (This is Chez Tall's standard!)	49.00/6.28 Organic (USA)
Spaghetti, 500g	10.80/1.38 Vetta (Italy)	68.50/8.78 Italian organic
Flour, white 1 kg	18.20/2.33 Betty Crocker (USA)	23.50/3.01 Marriage's organic (UK
Cheese, imported 250g	34.50/4.42 Mainland (NZ) cheddar	70.00/8.97 Farmhouse cheddar (UK)
Yoghurt, natural 150g tub	7.50/0.96 Danone (France)	19.50/2.50 Yeo Valley (UK)
Milk, fresh 1l	17.90/2.29 Kowloon Dairy	26.90/3.45 Pura (Aus)
Olive oil 1l	89.00/11.41 Select extra virgin	233.00/29.87 Olitalia Cultivar
Corn oil 940ml	19.90/2.55 Mazola (USA)	26.50/3.40 Mazola (USA)
Tomaotes, canned 400g can	11.50/1.47 Waitrose (UK)	19.50/2.50 Muir Glen (USA)
Chicken, frozen 1 kg	28.40/3.64 (Brazil)	100.00/12.80 (France)
Ground coffee 250g	43.60/5.59 Robert Timms (Aus)	50.00/6.40 Cafe Direct Fairtrade
Tea bags, packet of 80	42.90/5.50 Tetley's Drawstring (UK)	49.50/6.34 Taylor's Yorkshire
Mineral water 1.5l	7.60/0.97 Select (from Scotland)	11.90/1.53 Volvic
Orange juice 1l	10.90/1.40 Select	38.00/4.87 Vita Verde Organic (Germany)
Totals	HKD350.30/USD44.91	HKD785.80/USD100.74
Alcoholic drinks
	Mid-budget (HKD/USD)	High-budget (HKD/USD)
Wine, common table 750ml (Australian Cabernet Sauvignon)	95.00/12.17 Wolf Blass Yellow label	145.00/18.59 Brokenwood Cricket Pitch
Wine, superior quality 750ml (Australian Cabernet Sauvignon)	255.00/32.69 Penfold's Bin 407 (on sale; 328.00/42.05 regular)	328.00/42.05 Penfold's Bin 407
Beer, local brand, 330ml bottle	4.40/0.56 Tsing Dao draft	8.00/1.03 Tsing Dao export
Beer, top quality, 500ml	15.90/2.04 Boddington's draft ale	30.00/3.85 Abbot Ale
Gin, Gordon's 700 ml	119.00/15.26 (on sale; 145.00/18.59 regular)	130.00/16.67
Cognac, Hennessy VSOP 700ml	308.00/39.49	318.00/40.77
Scotch whiskey 700ml	298.00/38.21 Chivas 12-year-old	298.00/38.21 Chivas 12-year-old (note also: 565.00/72.44 for Glenfiddich 15-year-old)
Totals	HKD1095.30/USD140.42	HKD1257.00/USD161.15
Household supplies
	Mid-budget (HKD/USD)	High-budget (HKD/USD)
Laundry detergent 1.5l bottle	26.90/3.45 Fab	149.00/19.10 Ecover (Belgium)
Toilet paper, economy pack	21.00/2.69 Select premium (10 rolls)	119.00/15.26 Waitrose recycled (9 rolls)
Dishwashing liquid, 1l bottle	12.90/1.65 Axion	75.00/9.62 Ecover (Belgium)
Bath soap, 1 bar	3.30/0.42 Kao (3-pack@9.90)	25.00/3.21 Body Shop
Shampoo, 400ml bottle	29.90/3.83 Rejoice	129.00/16.53 Body Shop
Totals	HKD94.40/USD12.05	HKD497.00/USD63.71

Before I close, I'd like to spend just a few moments in reflective self-introspective meditation on my feelings about going through this pricing exercise (a practice much encouraged in the world of education in which I toil). I've unpacked my emotional baggage to its rumpled depths -- only to discover that I've really enjoyed myself. I am definitely a see lai (i.e. a housewifely type with clear penny-pinching overtones) at heart!

The next installment in this series includes price information for housing, transportation and schools.

How much does food cost in Hong Kong?

Mr Tall — Thu, 29 Mar 2007 01:00:00 +0000

We Batgung are asked the same question by many commenters and emailers: ‘How much does it cost to live in Hong Kong?’

The easy answer is ‘quite a lot, but maybe not so much as you might think, so long as you know where to look for things’.

What’s much harder is demonstrating by anecdote or isolated example how much difference it makes in Hong Kong if you buy your goods and services from expat-centric providers, as opposed to local ones.

So this article is a beginning attempt to nail down some comparative prices for people living different lifestyles here in the same city. It focuses on a common range of products we all consume: fresh food. It will be followed by additional comparisons and information on other types of products and services, so stay tuned.

To pick up on a theme I mentioned elsewhere on the site, you will see that I’ve divided our fresh food survey into three ‘lifestyle price ranges’:

Low A low-budget special, based on shopping in wet markets in completely ‘local’ areas of Hong Kong, especially those dominated by public housing.
Mid-range A middle-class Hong Kong approach, typified by shopping at big local chains such as Park N Shop and Wellcome, etc. Most of the fresh food sold at Hong Kong’s big supermarkets is still locally grown, but I’ve thrown in a few imported products an expat might be inclined to buy.
High A full-on, everything-we-had-back-home expat approach, shopping mostly in expat-friendly supermarkets such as Great and CitySuper. Note that when I checked out prices in this category, I expressly did not choose the highest-priced options. I picked what I thought was a ‘typical’ or mid-range-price product from what I saw available. You can certainly spend more on just about every item in this category if you are so led. I did express a preference for ‘ecologiclly correct’ option, however. This may have raised the overall bill just a bit, but these stores stock very few fresh products that are not ‘organic’ or ‘free-range’ or whatever.

You’ll see that the actual items in each ‘basket’ don’t exactly equal each other. That’s unavoidable, unfortunately, as cuts of meat, types of fish, etc. that are typical of Chinese and western cuisines don’t match up very well. Nevertheless, the total cost of each ‘basket’ of food should be roughly comparable, as each item has an appropriate representative in each budget category.

All prices are stated in Hong Kong dollars first, then in US dollars for easier reference for those outside Hong Kong. Most measures are per kilogram, with exceptions noted. For Americans, remember that 1kg=2.2 pounds, so we’re talking about quite a large quantity of each item measured in this way. I’ve included additional explanatory notes, particularly as to the origin of the food, wherever I think they’ll be helpful. If there’s no indication of where an item originated, this means it’s either local/from nearby in mainland China, or I couldn’t find out.

Food item	Low budget (HKD/USD)	Mid-budget (HKD/USD)	High-budget (HKD/USD)
White bread	5.00/0.64 7 slices	7.90/1.01 6 slices ‘Old English’	14.50/1.86 7 slices toast
Potatoes 1 kg	6.70/0.86	5.50/0.71	66.00/8.46 Organic red (USA)
Onions 1 kg	6.70/0.86	7.00/0.90	65.00/8.33 Organic red (UK)
Tomatoes 1 kg	6.70/0.86	13.20/1.69	100.00/12.82 Australian plum
Carrots 1 kg	6.70/0.86	6.60/0.85	66.00/8.46 Organic (Australia)
Oranges (large navel, 6)	19.80/2.53 USA	17.4/2.23 USA	120.00/15.38 Organic (USA)
Apples (large Fuji, 6)	19.80/2.53	13.20/1.69	178.80/22.92 Japanese
Lettuce 1 head	6.00/0.77 Iceberg	6.50/0.83 Iceberg	29.50/3.78 Hydroponic Cobb
Fresh spinach 1kg	8.30/1.06	13.20/1.69	180.00/23.08 Australian
Broccoli 2 heads	14.00/1.79	5.20/0.67	42.00/5.38 Organic (Australia)
Eggs (large, 12)	12.00/1.56	23.80/3.05 USA white	76.00/9.74 Free-range (NZ)
Beef: minced 1 kg	30.00/3.85	83.40/10.69 Australian	250.00/32.05 US or Australian
Pork (lean, boneless) 1 kg	43.30/5.55	37.40/4.79	200.00/25.64 US boneless loin
Chicken: fresh	55.00/7.05 Live	41.90/5.37 Chilled, whole (PRC)	340.00/43.59 Organic (France, 1.7kg)
Fresh fish (4 servings)**	32.00/4.10 Large ‘gold thread’	19.90/2.55 Chilled catfish filets	160.00/20.51 Chilean sea bass (400g)
Totals	HKD272.00/USD34.87	HKD302.01/USD38.73	HKD1887.80/USD242.02

**Note: I found fish to be the hardest item to compare, given the cultural/cuisine differences I mentioned above. I therefore chose what I thought might make for 'four servings' in each category. The 'gold thread' is a locally-caught fish with a nice firm flesh that's delicious fried up whole. The 'chilled catfish filets' I found at the local supermarket (and very cheap, I might add -- a full pound for just 19.90), were from the species Pangasius Hypothalmus (no, really, it was the only identifying information on the label). I discovered that this noble fish hails from the catfish family -- and geographically from Vietnam -- by googling the species name, then finding it lavishly referenced at the clearly indispensible Planet Catfish site. The sea bass servings I've assumed are actually quite small, i.e. just 100 grams, so the price for this number could go waaay up easily.

So, my first reaction to the total prices: Wow. When I decided to research and write up this topic, I expected a big gap between the ‘local’ and ‘expat’ buying approaches, but nothing on quite this scale. But then on several occasions I’ve observed someone ahead of me in the check-out line at Great or CitySuper presenting a modest-looking basket of groceries, and being rung up to the tune of 2,000-3,000 Hong Kong dollars.

I’m also a bit surprised by how close the totals for the ‘low’ and ‘mid’ budget approaches are. I knew that the wet markets are actually more expensive than the supermarket chains for certain items, especially since the latter have added their own ‘fresh market’ sections, but I still expected more of an overall difference. In fact, if you bought locally-raised beef and eggs in the supermarket instead of the Australian (I went for the imported on the grounds that these are products some expats might be more suspicious of buying locally), you’d come out cheaper than in the wet market overall.

One last point to note: if you consider that you’re getting a full kilogram of most of the vegetables on the list, it’s clear that fresh food in Hong Kong is pretty cheap – assuming you avoid the ‘expat’ approach, that is!

As I mentioned above, I’ll be adding to this article in the future with more categories of food, drinks (I know some of you can’t wait to see the booze section), entertainment expenses, housing costs, and so on.

Reader reports of price-gouging, shopping strategies and bargain sightings are very welcome.

[Note: the next installment, and the next, of this series are also now up.]

Where to learn Tai Chi in Hong Kong?

mrb — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 01:00:00 +0000

If you’ll be living in Hong Kong for several months or longer, why not learn Tai Chi? As a memento of Hong Kong, it’s much easier to take home than Chinese furniture, and it’s good for your health too!

There are a variety of courses on offer. You can choose from further education centres (e.g. YMCA), fitness centres (e.g. California Fitness), or even the free sessions run by the HK Tourist Board. But if you’d like to make some local friends at the same time, and can be a bit flexible with your schedule, there’s another option.

Visit your local park.

Visit a park near your home between say 6 and 9 in the morning, and you’re likely to find several groups of people doing their morning exercise. There’s usually a variety of things going on – some will be practicing the simplified exercises for health that are based on Tai Chi, others will be working through one of the Tai Chi forms, either empty-handed or using swords or fans. Dancing is popular too, with ballroom, modern Western, and traditional Chinese all to be seen.

Pay a few visits to get an idea of what’s on offer. It’s worth varying the times if you can, as different groups practice at different times, and even the same group may switch between different activities as the morning progresses. Once you see something that catches your interest, it’s time to see if you can join in.

You can choose to walk right up and ask if you can join in, but I’d suggest turning up for a few days and just sitting nearby and watching for a little while. They’ll likely get the idea you are curious and approach you. Otherwise a friendly smile and asking what they are doing is usually enough to get a conversation started, then you can ask if it would be ok for you to follow along.

It’s not as straightforward as signing up to a class, but for me it’s been a great way to make some local friends around the area I live, and to feel more at home in Hong Kong.

So, all good in theory, but what can go wrong?

No-one speaks English. The first hurdle might be that no-one in the group speaks good English. That needn’t be a show-stopper, as long as someone can let you know if it’s ok to join in, and help translate an occasional word or two. In an odd way it can be a benefit not to have too much verbal communication available, as it forces you to pay close attention to what the teacher is doing.

You are not welcome. For a variety of reasons (e.g. language barrier, nervousness of dealing with foreigners, their type of Tai Chi not suitable for beginners, etc.), they may not want you to join in. Just ask if they can suggest which of the other groups do, and choose another group.

The cost. If you do get invited to join in, at the end of the session ask if it is ok for you to come back again, and also what fees are involved. More formal classes have a monthly fee, but often the teachers are retired and are teaching for their own enjoyment at no charge. Even if there aren’t any official charges, take note if you see other students gathering money on a regular basis. There may be a regular ‘gift’ to the teacher – probably just a few tens of dollars per student.

The teacher isn’t good. You’ll soon work out if you get along with the teacher or not. Two reasons I can think of to look elsewhere would be if they can’t teach, or they don’t look out for your safety. Some of the people who can do Tai Chi very well themselves have difficulty breaking down what they know into manageable chunks for their students. If you really aren’t getting anywhere after several weeks, move on. Also if you feel pressured to move in a way that can injure you, move on immediately.

The gweilo effect. The good news is that you’ll get plenty of attention as a student, the bad news is that you’ll get plenty of attention as a student. The ‘bad’ attention takes several forms. At the basic level, you’ll get stared at more than usual, and some mornings may even attract a small crowd. Annoying, but get used to it. You’ll also find that many Chinese people feel their nationality somehow makes them experts on Tai Chi, and they are happy to share their knowledge with you. Keep smiling!

Give it a try. Before you know it you'll be 'waving hands like clouds' with the best of them!

MrB

How to buy a flat / apartment in Hong Kong

mrb — Thu, 02 Nov 2006 01:00:00 +0000

If you are planning to buy your first flat (aka apartment or condominium) in Hong Kong, you’re probably wondering how to get the best deal, while avoiding any expensive mistakes. Read on for Batgung's recommendations on trouble-free house-hunting.

Where should I live?

If you’re still unsure about which area of Hong Kong to live in, you might want to read this first.

Should I buy or rent?

Hmm, no easy answer to that one. I find this graph is always a sobering sight. It shows relative property prices from 1994 up to the current date. How would you interpret it? If you like a bargain, you might see that property today is cheaper than a year ago, and in fact cheaper than 12 years ago. As a pessimist you'll see that people who bought property at the highest prices in 1997 have seen almost 50% of the value disappear. Finally the optimists will note that the price has nearly doubled since 2003.

As an example, we bought our first flat in 1998 (prices had dropped, but it turned out they had a lot further to go) for $2.35M (all prices in HK$). Today it is worth around $1.7M (up from $1.2M at its worst). On the other hand, we bought our current flat in 2002 for $2.85M which is now worth about $4M. So they haven’t made us rich, but I don't like the idea of paying money to a landlord forever, and we’re happy to not have to move at the end of a lease.

If you are thinking of buying vs renting, also keep the effects of commissions, legal fees and stamp duties in mind. Let's say you buy a $4M flat, and pay the typical 30% downpayment of $1.2M. You can also expect to pay over $200,000 in extra fees associated with buying and selling it, before even thinking of decorating costs. If you just plan to keep the flat for a couple of years while you are here on a contract, the price of the flat will have to rise around 5% just to cover your costs.

Where will you find potential properties?

Once you have an idea of where you want to live, the size of flat and number of rooms you need, you can either start on the internet or head straight to an estate agent (aka property agent, or real-estate agent). I use GoHome most often. I used to like Centanet, but they seem to have given up on developing the English-language version of their website.

The GoHome site also offers property listings, but I’ve not been that impressed with them. The couple of times we contacted advertisers, the properties we were interested in were mysteriously not available. I guess that some property agents post non-existent sales just to catch attention in the hope they can show customers other flats?

In any case, your next step is to visit an estate agent.

How can I find a good estate agent?

Certainly ask friends and colleagues for any recommendations, as word-of-mouth is the best bet. Failing that, visit the area you are interested in, and take a look at the windows of a few agents. Do they list buildings that you are interested in? Do most of the properties they advertise cover your price range? (Some specialise in the high- or low-end of the market, so if that's not what you are looking for, move elsewhere.)

Once you've chosen an agent, try visiting a few flats to see if you are comfortable with them. Note that for each flat you visit you’ll have to sign a sheet agreeing you can’t buy that flat through any other agent for a specified number of months. So if you don’t like the agent, move on quickly.

Some points to watch for when choosing an agent include:

Can they speak reasonable English?

It doesn't have to be fluent, as the vocabulary of property transactions is quite limited – just enough to make sure your needs are understood. In fact you might even want to carefully avoid fluency. When buying our first flat we went to the extreme of pretending that we didn't speak Cantonese (MrsB is Hong Kong Chinese, so that's a stretch!). If you visit a flat at the same time as a group of Chinese-speaking buyers and their agent, you'll understand why - 'hard sell' seems to be the only way many local agents work, and I think many buyers just sign something to shut the agent up.

Our ploy worked well initially, as the only complimentary English word our agent seemed to know was 'fine'. After a flat full of fines - 'the bathroom is fine, the kitchen is fine, the view is fine, etc', she shut up and left us to our own devices. There was karmic payback when we found that the seller's agent lived in the same building as our new flat. The first time she met us in the lift with MrsB's relatives, we had to come up with some creative explanations about how we'd learned Cantonese so quickly!

Will they follow your price range?

Agents make money from commissions, so it's natural they want you to buy as expensive a flat as you can afford. Also, on the first one or two visits they'll probably show you a wide range of prices, for you to get an idea of what's on the market. But after that if they offer to show you flats that are out of your budget, just say no. If they keep doing it, find another agent.

Are they honest?

The favourite words I like to hear an agent say are 'I don't know'. Of course you expect they'll check and get back to you with the information, but I take that as a basic sign of honesty. If they always have an answer to every question, and you catch them out a few times, they're likely making up answers. Are they being lazy, dishonest, or have they been selling so long they believe their own guesses? In any case, call them on the mistake and if it continues then look for a new agent.

Are small, local agencies best, or the big Hong Kong-wide chains?

We've used the local agencies, and they seem more flexible on commission rates, but we also have friends that prefer the big chains. I think they just feel more comfortable dealing with a larger company.

How much commission should I pay the agent?

The official rate is 1% of the final purchase price, and the agent will probably tell you that they aren't allowed to change it. In practice, few things in Hong Kong sell without a discount, and you shouldn't have trouble getting them to agree 0.8% or 0.9% commission rates. I recommend the time to discuss this is when you first meet your agent, not right at the end when you're trying to sign the contract.

You can even get lower rates, but if you drive too hard a bargain, you may end up hurting yourself as then the agent has little incentive to help you. One approach we've used is to agree on a lower rate for a 'bad' price, a normal rate (say 0.8%) for a fair price, and the full 1% for a good price. Which leads us on to...

What is a fair price for a flat?

There are two easy ways to get an idea of the price you should be paying. First look up transaction records of recent sales in the development you are looking at, to see the range of prices people have paid. Then to get a more specific idea, check the bank's valuation of the flat you are looking at. This used to need a call to the bank, but several banks now offer online valuations. The HSBC property valuation page covers a very comprehensive list of properties in Hong Kong.

What affects the price of a Hong Kong flat?

You’ll find that blocks of flats you consider similar can have very different prices. Sometimes you’ll even find a large variation between prices of flats in the same block. Here are some explanations I’ve heard. (Even if you don’t agree with them, think if they’ll affect the resale value of the flat when you want to move and need to resell)

Location. Seems obvious, but where you might see a flat in a crowded built-up area with no view, others may see a flat conveniently near to shops and the local MTR station. See South Horizons as an example of somewhere that is cheaper because it is considered to be an inconvenient place.
Orientation. Will it get a lot of sunshine in summertime, and be very hot? Or catch the cold northerly winds in winter?
School networks. The Central and Western areas of Hong Kong (including Mid-levels) lie in the catchment areas of many top-name schools. That is a big deal to many parents.
Age of the building. You’re probably used to houses that are 100+ years old, and if you’re from Europe then even 200+ years old is not unusual. Here people get twitchy about buying buildings that are more than around twenty years old.
Top floor. This often commands a premium because you’ll have access to the roof - think outdoor plants and barbecues. Be careful though as in older buildings it can also mean leaking ceilings and an unbearably hot flat in the summer.

What else should I ask about?

The efficiency of the flat. If Hong Kong flats weren’t small enough already, you’ll soon realize that the quoted figure is the gross – in all senses of the word - area. Multiply that by the efficiency (anything over 80% is considered good) to find the usable value. Flat prices are quoted based on the gross area, so you can have two flats with the same gross area, but different efficiencies and so very different actual usable areas.
The monthly management fee. How much will you pay, and what does it include? In older, smaller developments it just gets you several interchangeable grumpy old men that sit by the main entrance, and snooze. In larger modern developments it may give you access to swimming pools, sports facilities, childrens’ playrooms, and other goodies.
What large-scale maintenance work has been done lately? In a new (< 5-years) building, this can give you an indication of any problems with the building, or on the plus side how aggressive the management are to fix problems. In older (> 10 years) buildings, has there been any repair or replacement of the exterior wall coverings? Have the outside water and sewage pipes been replaced? If not, are there any existing plans for this work to be done? Is the cost of the work shared among the owners, or covered by the management fees? Somewhere before a building’s 20th birthday this work will typically need to be done, and can cost tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars per flat.
Have any alterations been made to the original structure of the flat? This is more common on old (20+ years) flats, where people have changed shapes of windows, closed in balconies, built extra rooms on the roof, etc. In recent years the government has been cracking down on this, and forcing landlords to pay to remove additions and/or check that changes are structurally sound.
Slopes. If there are slopes around the building, who is responsible for their upkeep? If it is the responsibility of the owners of the flats, and it is a small property, your share of the bill could be expensive.

+ + +

If we haven't answered your question, if you see any mistakes above, or you have other ideas on how to make buying a flat as painless as possible, we’d love to hear from you.

Regards, MrB

Why Hong Kong?

mrb — Thu, 23 Mar 2006 01:00:00 +0000

I didn't intend to come to Hong Kong at all. Instead I was heading to Australia courtesy of their working holiday visa. But, there was a lady I'd met previously in Canada that I'd taken a fancy to. She was living in Hong Kong, so I thought I'd stop here on the way.

Near to the departure date she announced she would have left Hong Kong by the time I arrived, but with the plane tickets already booked, I figured there was no harm in spending some time here. I left Britain on a frosty October morning in 1989, flying in to the old Kai Tak airport. I remember the bus ride from the airport to Tsim Sha Tsui (TST) through Hung Hom, all grey concrete with not a Western face in sight and me thinking "What have I done?".

Following the guidebook I was clutching, I headed for the backpacker's haven in TST, Chungking Mansions. I was quickly spotted by a tout and whisked up to one of the guest houses. Since I was planning to be around for several months, I started looking for a room to rent and ended up in Kimberley Street, also in TST. $2,800 for a room in an old walk-up building, shared with two other gweilos that I hardly ever saw. One was a DJ who slept all day then went off to do his DJ thing at night. The other worked in a hotel and basically lived there, just returning to the flat late at night with what seemed to be a different attractive Asian lady each night.

With somewhere to live, the monthly expenses were lower, but I still needed to find work ASAP. Cue that old 'White face in Asia' standby, and MrB was teaching English. Not very well. One lesson sticks in my mind where we were practising 'vocabulary around the house'. The conversation went something along the lines of:
MrB: "This is the bedroom, where people sleep, and this is the living room where we watch TV. Which room do you sleep in?"
Student: "The living room"
After repeating this sequence several times, another student who spoke more English put us out of our misery by explaining that the flat had two parents, five children and two bedrooms. Several children slept in the living room... Thankfully for all concerned, the teaching work didn't last long.

Now what I really, really wanted to do was write computer programs. Sad but true, I am a shameless geek, and in the UK had been a happy programmer. But, despite writing lots of replies to job ads, I had very few interviews. Was it that my skills weren't exactly right, I was asking too much, or employers worried I wouldn't fit in with a Chinese team? (Remember that at that time a UK passport meant no visa worries). I eventually found work by attending a computer show, and asking at any likely looking booths whether they had any work. One gave me a name to call, which turned into a lunch, and eventually a job to pay the bills.

I left around the middle of the following year, making my way to Australia via Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia. During that time I thought how much I'd enjoyed living in Hong Kong, and how much speaking Cantonese would have helped. I arrived in Australia in Sydney (not the original plan at all, but there were some shenanigans getting flights out of Bali, so I ended up taking whatever flight I could to arrive in Australia before my visa entry date expired - I arrived on the last day!). A happy benefit of living there was that it had lots of people who wanted to learn Cantonese - some were second generation Chinese immigrants who couldn't communicate with their aging Grandparents, and the rest were Westerners who'd married into a Chinese family. So I signed up for an evening class in Cantonese, read my 'Teach yourself Cantonese' on the bus to work, and gradually picked up some basics in Cantonese.

When the time in Australia was over I headed home to the UK for a couple of stints as best man, got a job, saved enough to buy a plane ticket, and flew back to Hong Kong. That was in early 1992, and I've been here since.

How about you? What brought you here - and kept you from leaving?

I'm having doubts! Should I move to Hong Kong?

batgung — Wed, 01 Sep 2004 10:08:41 +0000

Question: I'm now experiencing doubts about moving to Hong Kong from the UK. Should I do it?

Mr B replies: I'm biased, but I'd say give it a go. Some people like it and end up staying "for maybe another year", and end up finding they've been here for ten or more. A fair number find themselves having enjoyed it, but looking forward to going home at the end of their 2-year contract.

I've only ever met one person that couldn't wait to leave. He was out here because his wife had been posted here. He had to have chips with every meal, hated Chinese food, didn't like foreign people, and spent his time here living in a little British bubble. If that sounds like you, you might not enjoy it either, but if it's just a case of butterflies, I'd advise you to take the plunge.

I've relocated overseas three times, and have come to the conclusion that I should expect to get occasional attacks of feeling a bit lonely and miserable for the first three or four months, as it takes me a while to get settled in and make new friends.

Has Hong Kong changed since 1997?

batgung — Wed, 01 Sep 2004 10:07:12 +0000

Question: How has Hong Kong changed since 1997? Is it no longer a good place to live? What does the future hold?

Mr Tall replies: Obviously, this is a contentious issue on which speculation is easy, and finding definitive answers hard indeed. My impression is that Hong Kong is just as good a place to live these days as it was when I arrived in 1990, but not for all the same reasons. In some ways, the living here for a westerner is easier than ever, with better, more affordable housing, better transport, and better access to western restaurants/foods/other amenities. But these improvements have been offset to some degree by threats to the status of the rule of law in Hong Kong, and broad, long-term concerns over the future of China in general.

Clearly, though, as you will see by looking around the rest of this site, I still like Hong Kong very much indeed, and have no plans whatever to leave. It's a great place to live.

________________________________________

Question: I am concerned about the legal system as well as the tax structure, since Hong Kong is based on common law whereas China is not (yet). How do things stand in these areas?

Mr Tall replies: You know, I've started thinking about the very same issues. I like to worry about the future (I come from a family full of accomplished worriers and doom-and-gloomers) and it's also the tax thing that gets me. Right now HK is essentially a tax haven (find out more about taxes in Hong Kong here), but what about at retirement age? Mrs Tall and I think we'd like to live here at least part of the time, and hence be able to maintain nice low taxes on our retirement investments. But who knows what'll be going on by then? Anyway, by 2047 I'll likely be glad just to be putting on my socks by myself.

A reader adds: Well from I've read in the Basic Law, the Special Administrative Region will still continue after 2047. The only thing that *could* change is the capitalist system, but my HK accountant says that currently there are no plans for such a change and as long as the system will continue to work (which it should) there should be no reason to change the system.

I think the SAR will continue to stay until China as a whole is on par with Hong Kong. It would be pointless to take a step backward and move to a worse legal and economic system as well as almost impossible to do without creating a huge mess.