Batgung - Shopping

Hong kong Visit

hongkongking — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 04:45:12 +0000

Hello Guys,

I am planning to visit HK in April for 3 days only. Could you please suggest me where to go (must see place in HK), and also any budget hotel to stay for 3 nights?

Any pass to commute in buses and trains? Where to shop? And what to buy? As I dont know anything about HK.

Any other suggestion or help are really appreciated.

Thank you.

Hong Con: Avoid the scams and rip-offs

mrb — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:00:00 +0000

There are some shopkeepers in Hong Kong who seem more interested in ripping off tourists than making an honest sale. Don't let them spoil your holiday - if you're thinking of buying electronic or A/V equipment in Hong Kong, take a few minutes to read these guidelines.

In summary:

Know what you are going to buy
Avoid the small shops, especially those along Nathan Road and around Tsim Sha Tsui and Causeway Bay
Buy from the major chains, or
Buy from the specialist shops
Watch out for the common scams
Contact the police if you have problems
If you think you've been ripped off, report it

1. Know what you are going to buy

The more knowledgeable you are about what you plan to buy, the harder it will be for someone to fool you. So make sure you know the answers to at least:

What is it I need to buy? (digital camera? camcorder? digital photo frame? Notebook PC? Etc)
What brand(s) am I looking for?
What model(s) will I buy?
What is the cost to buy it in my home country?
How much cheaper must it be to make it worthwhile buying in Hong Kong?
What are those prices in Hong Kong Dollars?

You should be able to get the answers to all these questions with a few searches on the internet.

If you are buying something as a favour for a friend, make sure they give you written answers to all these questions before you leave home. It will help prevent problems like buying the wrong model or overpaying, that will could cause headaches when you return home.

2. Avoid the small shops, especially along Nathan Road and around Tsim Sha Tsui and Causeway Bay

When problems are reported, they almost always seem to happen in these small shops. Just avoid them, it's not worth the risk of shopping there.

The shops typically have windows full of the latest gear, often have “Tax Free” signs in the window, with a group of salesmen waiting inside.

Usually they won't have any prices displayed, and you'll rarely if ever see local customers in the shop. Two warning signs!

3. Buy from the major chains

In recent years the price gap between the major chains and the smaller shops has got a lot smaller. Plus there's the peace of mind of buying from the larger chains.

Fortress is one local chain with a good selection of products, and stores in all the major areas. Visit their website (click 'Eng' at tthe top of the page to change to the English-language version, then click 'Store Locator' at the bottom of the page) to find the store nearest to you, and also to search for products and prices.

If you can't bear the thought of buying without at least a little comparison shopping, head along to the third floor of Ocean Centre in Tsim Sha Tsui, or levels 7 and 8 of Times Square in Causeway Bay. Both have several of the major chains present, including Broadway (store addresses in English, but rest of site Chinese-only), Fortress, and Tai Lin (link takes you to English version of their website. It lists store addresses, but at time of writing it doesn't show any products or prices).

4. Buy from trusted specialist shops

We'll break rule #3, and admit that sometimes a smaller shop is the way to go. In some cases they do still offer better prices, and if you need more specialist equipment they are probably the only place you'll get it.

See our separate articles on buying specific products for recommended specialist shops.

5. Watch out for the common scams

If you've followed the above points, you shouldn't have any need for this section. Still, here's what to watch out for if you end up in the wrong sort of shop.

Most of the scams are some type of 'bait and switch': You start off talking about the model you are looking for (the one you researched in point #1), but then the salesman introduces a different model that is 'much, much better'. Except of course it isn't.

The Hong Kong Police website describes it as:

By far the most common complaints from visitors to Hong Kong concern deception during retail or other commercial transactions.

It is important that you know what you are buying before you enter into a transaction. The police can only investigate cases where criminal deception is suspected. In many cases, the victim may have obtained a "bad deal" - for instance, paying double the price as that offered by the shop next door - but such a transaction is not criminal unless the victim was given a false or misleading description of the item.

For instance, if you decide to buy a camera "model FX100" and negotiate a price of $1000 with the dealer, whereupon the deal is completed - it is not a deception if you later find out you could have bought the same model cheaper somewhere else. It is only a deception if you were told you were being sold model FX100 and later find out that it is in fact "model FX90".

So the attraction to the shopkeeper is obvious – fat profits and not having officially committed any criminal offence. Here are some of the warning signs to be on the lookout for:

“We use a different brand name here in Hong Kong”

This seems to happen most with the Fuji brand, where customers are shown products marked “Fujitac” or “Fujila”. The second names are manufacturers of digital cameras and camcorders, but are NOT related to the Japanese Fuji company.

As far as I know, all popular company brand names are the same in Hong Kong as overseas, so take this as a good reason to leave the shop immediately.

“That model is sold under a different model name in Hong Kong”

“That model is obsolete, and has been replaced by the newer XYZ model”

“That model is useless! Why don't you look at this brand, which is much better.”

In some cases these are true. Eg my current digital camera is sold as the Canon Ixus 850 IS here in Hong Kong, but in the US it sells as the Canon SD 800 IS Digital Elph. And new models are sometimes released in Hong Kong before Europe and America. But it could just as easily be an excuse to switch you to a model you don't know the real price of.

Stay safe:

Your best defence is knowing what you want to buy, as described in point #1. As soon as you start looking at a different brand or model, you don't know whether it's features are what you need, or what is a fair price to pay. The salesperson has taken control.

If this happens, get up and leave. If you believe they may be telling the truth, and the new model they recommend may actually be better for you, make a note of it, but still get up and leave. Then get on to the internet to check reviews and prices.

Alternatively, go to another shop that will sell you the model you originally requested.

Don't be pushed into buying something you don't know about.

Unfortunately there is another, higher-pressure version of this technique.

It all starts off well, where you are shown the product you asked for, agree a price, and sign a credit card slip to make the purchase. But then “So sorry, we don't have stock here but I'll just send someone to get it”. And the pressure to switch begins. They can stretch the delay out to 20-, 40-, 60-minutes and more, all the time persuading you that a different model is a better deal, that they have it in the shop, and why don't you take it? Many people give in just to get out of the shop!

Stay safe:

Once you have agreed on a price, ask if they have stock in the shop. If yes, ask to see it. If it is shrink wrapped they may not want to open it until you have signed the credit card slip, which is fair enough.

If they don't have it in stock, but say they can get it in a few minutes, that may still be true. Many shops have limited space and keep stock in a nearby location. So ask how long it will take to arrive, and if you're ok with the time, ask them to bring it. But DO NOT SIGN ANY CREDIT CARD SLIP OR HAND OVER ANY CASH UNTIL YOU SEE IT. If they insist you sign before bringing it, get up and start to leave. They'll either decide it's not worth losing the sale and give in, or you can soon find another shop.

If they start trying to sell you something else while you are waiting, politely tell them you are not interested, and that if they continue you will leave.

6. Contact the police if you have problems

If you've been taken in with a bait-and-switch scam, contact the police for help. Although it may not officially be a crime, as the police website says:

Police in Tsim Sha Tsui (the main tourist area) are also concerned about these cases, and may still be able to offer you assistance even if you are not sure about your case, so contact them if you are in any doubt. The telephone number for the Duty Officer of Tsim Sha Tsui Police Station is 2678 2887.

Give them a call. There have been regular cases where the buyer has returned to the shop along with a policeman and been given a refund. (Of course, keep all original packaging and paperwork if there's a chance you'll need to do this).

7. If you think you've been ripped off, report it

If you've been scammed and you're still in Hong Kong, call the police (see previous point), and lodge a complaint with the Hong Kong consumer council.

If you've already left Hong Kong, write to the police to ask if they can help (pprb@police.gov.hk), and again lodge a complaint with the consumer council.

The shops that operate these scams do it to make money. They rely on tricking tourists, assuming that either the tourist will be too embarrassed to make a fuss, or the tourist will leave Hong Kong before finding out about the problem.

If you've experienced one of these scams, please report it. Help make it difficult enough for the shopkeepers that they decide there are easier ways to make money than ripping off visitors.

You might want to print out a copy of this to take with you as you go shopping. At least make a note of the police phone number mentioned in point #6.

If you have any other advice for shoppers, please leave a comment below.

MrB

Fill in the Survey --> Get $50 H.K supermarket coupon

Wed, 09 Apr 2008 07:47:29 +0000

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Things to see and do in Hong Kong: Markets and shopping

batgung — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:35:03 +0000

Ladies’ market/flower market/jade market/bird street in Mongkok

How long will it take?: ½ day is likely to be all you can take!

How to get there: All easily accessible by bus or MTR

No matter what anybody tells you about Central, Mongkok is the real heart of Hong Kong. That said, real hearts are actually rather unattractive organs, and so it is here. Mongkok is a grid of impossibly crowded streets; a weekend afternoon can see you literally at a standstill in pedestrian traffic. Weekdays are somewhat better, and I’d pick one to check out the standard ‘markety’ sights here: the Ladies’ Market, comprising a couple blocks of street stalls with cheap clothes and baubles; the bird market, where the accoutrements for keeping your bird are almost as interesting as the birds themselves; and the flower market, which just smells nice. There’s a jade market, too, but be careful there – you can get seriously ripped off if you don’t know what you’re doing.

You may also want to use a visit to Mongkok to do some more conventional shopping, too. If so, see our guide to shopping, and our three articles on buying electronics.

Indoor shopping in Pacific Place, Ocean Terminal-Harbour City-Gateway, or Times Square/Causeway Bay

How long will it take?: Variable – the TST mall complex can take all day!

How to get there: All easily accessible by bus or MTR

If you really want to see what it means when they say HK is a ‘shoppers’ paradise’, you have two choices: you can go to Mongkok or Causeway Bay on a Sunday afternoon, or you can mall it. Either way, you’ll discover how shopping is HK people’s number one recreational, and possibly even spiritual, obsession.

See also our more extensive guide to shopping in Hong Kong.

More on buying electronics in Hong Kong, Part II

Mr Tall — Tue, 18 Oct 2005 05:38:22 +0000

We've covered buying computer stuff in part I of this article. Now it's time to consider all the other items that make the digital life such fun -- sound and video equipment, cameras, and other electrical appliances.

Hong Kong has a reputation for being a good place to buy A/V equipment and cameras, but it's debatable. As Mr B warns, the smaller shops in the tourist areas in and around Tsim Sha Tsui are probably best avoided. That leaves several large chains of electronics shops which have branches all over the city, and a couple of other cheaper, but potentially more risky, alternatives.

The main AV/electronics chains in Hong Kong are as follows:

Fortress is the biggest electronics chain in Hong Kong, so if you're looking for the most solid establishment with the most mainstream selections, this would be it.

Broadway is pretty close behind Fortress; in almost every mall or other location in which you can find a Fortress, there's usually a Broadway nearby. I find their selection and display of products slightly inferior to Fortress, and their prices typically identical, so I don't often spend a lot of time in Broadway shops.

Tai Lin and Chung Yuen are smaller chains that have a more 'local' feel to me, and for some reason I've often found that their staff seem a bit older, and possibly more experienced and knowledgeable than staff in Fortress and Broadway. But your mileage may of course vary.

As I mentioned above, a cheaper alternative to the big chains is to check out the six or eight shops that each take up a floor in the tiny Yau Shing Commercial Centre in Mongkok. These shops look respectable enough, although they're often very smoky, and they tend to offer higher-end AV equipment at cut-rate prices. Often the best prices are on 'parallel imports', which Mr B has explained. You have to be a bit careful in these shops, both in terms of the provenance and warranty the actual item you're interested in might have, and also in making sure you don't go over the top and get talked into buying a product way up the scale from what you initially had in mind. You reach Yau Shing Commercial Centre by taking the MTR to Mongkok, hitting street level via exit E2, and then finding the entrance to the building just on your left. Its actual address is 51 Sai Yeung Choi Street, but the building entrance closest to the MTR exit is on the pedestrianized section of Nelson Street. It's worth visiting at least several of the shop in this building, since they tend to have quite different product ranges and specialties.

You can find out a bit more about what it's like to make purchases there in the description of a buying trip I made there some time ago:

Mrs Tall and I did go to a shop in that infamous building in Mongkok when we bought all the electronic stuff for our new flat a couple of years ago. It was a big purchase (an amp and surround-sound speakers, two flat-screen TVs, cabling, etc.) so we were able to do some heavy bargaining.It all went pretty well, in the sense that everything worked, and that the shop delivered and installed everything, so we didn't have to take a savings-wasting taxi ride!There were a few 'exceptional' aspects to the service, though, that might put some people off buying from this kind of shop. First, the same guy that sold us the stuff was the one who came along with the delivery men to install it in our flat. Nothing really wrong with this, I guess, but it gives you a sense of the scope of these shops' operations. More pertinently, the goods were delivered at 11:30 pm, and our guy didn't get done installing them until 2-something the next morning! The whole experience was mildly fraught, to say the least.

But we did save several thousand dollars over what we'd have paid at Fortress or Broadway!

Note also that if you're also interested in buying computer stuff, Yau Shing Commercial Centre is just a couple of blocks from Mongkok Computer Centre, which I described in part I of this article.

Mr B, as you'll see later on, also checks prices in a smaller chain of shops called Citicall. There's one at 87 Fa Yuen street in Mongkok, i.e. also in the Yau Shing/Mongkok Computer Centre neighborhood.

One other option for buying bargain-basement electronics is Ap Liu Street in Sham Shui Po. It's very near the Golden Arcade computer center, so again if you're going to one, you might want to check out the other. Like Golden Arcade, Ap Liu Street can feel a bit chaotic, but it's interesting and there's no denying there are lots of good deals to be had there. Mrs Tall and I have bought a couple of cordless telephones for our flat there with no trouble. Here's a bit more on Ap Liu Street from one of our readers:

Dave says:

If you're looking for cheap stuff, probably the best place to look is Ap Liu Street in Sham Shui Po. It's sign-posted from the MTR. At first glance, it's just another market street, but some of the stalls sell DVD players, HiFi systems, etc. Also, many of the shops behind the stalls sell general electronics and whatnot. It's the place to go if you're looking for electronic components, tools (multi-meters, etc) or just gadgets (electric shavers are about $70, for example.)

Also, there are quite a few second hand camera stalls there and some second hand computer places. You need to know what you're doing with the computer places: it's usually secondhand components sold as is. If you know what's what, there can be incredible bargains there, and it's a great place to find older stuff.

Now, a few more notes about buying electronics in Hong Kong.

Although the chain stores all provide marked prices on all items, you can bargain. Mrs Tall has been told that the shop staff are given a 'bottom line' price they can go down to if a customer pushes. We've had success doing just this a couple of times recently. First, we bought a Philips LCD TV from one of the chains earlier this year, and were indeed able to knock about 15% off the marked price. The existence of this practice was confirmed when we recently bought a DVD recorder. The particular model we ended up buying was marked at HKD 2790 in every shop I checked (and I checked all the big chains). We ended up buying it in a shop in Yau Shing Commercial Centre in Mongkok for HKD2100 -- but we noticed our receipt said HKD2380. We asked the salesman why, and he said that 2380 was the manufacturer's baseline price in Hong Kong, so they had to pretend that's what they charged. The big chain shops, of course, won't pretend: that 2380 would indeed have been the lowest price we could have bargained down to. As you can see, it's again about a 15% reduction. But obviously the best price was to be had in Yau Shing Commercial Centre. In fact, if you shop in Yau Shing, you really must bargain, as in most cases prices are highly negotiable. And you should always pay less for a given item in Yau Shing than you would in one of the chain stores.

Here is a very helpful and systematic research into comparative pricing from Mr B:

To give a better picture of the differences in prices, here are the prices I've found on my hunt for a video camera (proving the saying that you can tell the age of a man's firstborn child by the age of his video camera!).

I'm looking for the Sony 105E model, and found the following prices (all in HK$)...$8,990 - this was the 'official' price, quoted at the Sony showroom in Causeway Bay, and also the price at Broadway

$8,540 - Fortress$8,150 - Citicall

Added note: The day after I wrote this I went to buy at the Citicall in Central, and happened to ask in a nearby shop 'Wah Kiu Radio Ltd' at No 7 Queen Victoria Street. This price included local warranty, so they got the sale:$7,740 - Wah Kiu Radio Ltd$6,888 - Shop on Johnston Rd, Wanchai$5,980 - Several shops in 'Yau Shing Commercial Centre' (the building in Mongkok by the 'Bank Centre' MTR exit).The first three are all covered by local warranty, while the last two are parallel imports. A closer look shows that the parallel imports are the 105 NTSC model, instead of the 105E PAL model that is used locally. The $6,888 model is from the US, while the $5,980 model is from Japan.Given that it's a digital video camera, and our TV supports multiple standards, I'm not sure if the PAL/NTSC difference is important or not?

Finally, a quick visit to Amazon.com shows the 105E available for $9,360, and the 105 available for $7,800.

Another note about the chain shops: the quality of the staff and their knowledge of the products they're selling varies widely. At the chain stores we have had both excellent and appalling service. Fortress is in fact notorious for the indifference of its staff, and I've found this to be the case disturbingly often. When I bought an electric razor recently I starting looking at a Fortress, just because I happened to be near one when I thought about it. I looked over several models that were locked up in a display case. I wanted to take them out and play with them a bit, but there was no one behind the counter. I then looked over to another counter a ways away: five Fortress staff gathered around laughing and talking. I gave them the Look of Interest, got no response; waved, nothing doing; then finally walked over and said 'Do you think one of you could spare a minute to sell me one of your products?' or something similarly snide, which was of course utterly lost on this slack-jawed quintet. I did stay for a couple of minutes so that a sullen Fortress salesgirl was compelled to stand up and open up the display case, but I wasn't about to buy my razor there. When shopping for the DVD recorder in the chain stores, I also heard some remarkably creative accounts of the capabilities of the model I was looking at. In fact, the most seemingly-knowledgeable and competent salesman I talked to was just wrong wrong wrong about any number of things, it later turned out.

Finally, as you sift through the name-brand items from Sony, Sharp, JVC, Philips and so on in Hong Kong electronics shops, you'll also come across some brand names you might not know -- Malata, 'Super', and many others. The great majority of these are Chinese made, i.e. either in Taiwan, the mainland, or even occasionally in Hong Kong. They're often far cheaper than the big brands for items with comparable features. If you're living overseas, I don't know that I'd risk taking one of these products home, unless you're sure it's compatible with your home country's specifications/requirements, and you're really not worried about warranties/repairs. But if you live in Hong Kong, you might succumb to the temptation to buy one of these off-brands: in fact, both batgung have done so, with differing results:

Mr B writes:

Something to keep in mind if you'll be playing DVDs in HK ...I wrote the first 'buying electronics' article after I'd just bought a new Sony DVD player, with built-in tuner and surround-sound amplifier. It had all the speakers, looked slick, and I was a happy camper.

The problem with it only appeared later -- it is a very picky eater, and fussy about the quality of DVDs it will play. To add to the frustration factor, it often starts playing a DVD ok, but half way through it starts skipping and pausing before finally giving up completely.Hong Kong is awash in fake DVDs. Whether you buy them, or borrow them from friends & family, your DVD player will likely have to digest more fake discs than real over its lifetime. The general wisdom is "Buy a China model, they'll play anything!So, last night I became the proud owner of a "Super"-brand DVD player from a local store, for just HK$468. Sure enough, it happily plays all the DVDs that the Sony spat out. Surprisingly it has more features than the Sony. It even has an "Optical Out" connection, and after hooking that up to the Sony I still get the Dolby/DTS surround sound.

It isn't going to win any design awards, and as an added challenge the remote control buttons and their legends don't match up, but it certainly does its job.

Mr Tall adds:

On the other side of the coin, a cautionary tale: Mrs Tall and I also went the 'cheap and cheerful' route in buying an LCD TV several years ago, when they were just starting to become common. Instead of a name brand like Phillips or even Samsung, we got a 'locally made' brand called 'Konka', thinking it'd likely show the same robust characteristics as the VCD/DVD players manufactured in these parts.Well, it turned out to be a piece of junk. Its built-in tuner was nearly worthless, and eventually it started losing the signals coming to it both from our TV hookup and from our DVD player. It became essentially unusable, and since we were loath to put any money into trying to repair it, we just cut our losses and replaced it.

So beware! The DVD-player principle does necessarily hold for other electronic goods!

Happy shopping!

More on buying electronics in Hong Kong, part I

Mr Tall — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 05:16:57 +0000

I've spent large chunks of a couple of recent weekends geeking about with electronics.

(Incidentally, Mr B is well aware of this, as he wasted much of a precious Saturday afternoon on the telephone counseling a cranky and frustrated Mr T, who was unable to configure his new wifi router without professional help. It turned out Mr T had done everything right except for one minor detail: how was he to know the stupid password his ISP expected of him?)

Anyway, I thought it would be a good time to post a little update/expansion of our previous material on buying electronics in Hong Kong.

First, let's draw one distinction. That is, when buying 'electronics' it's very helpful to think in terms of two sub-categories -- i.e. 'computer stuff' versus 'other' electronics such as audio-video equipment and cameras. Although these categories overlap in practice, you're likely to want to buy most items from each category at different kinds of places in Hong Kong.

Let's tackle 'computer stuff' here in part I of this article, and 'the rest of it' later in part II.

On several occasions, we've mentioned 'computer centers' in Hong Kong where you can find just about anything you could imagine needing for home computing. These computer centers are hard to describe if you've never been in one. The best comparison I can make is that they're something like beehives for techies. Typically infesting three or four floors of otherwise run-of-the-mill commercial buildings, Hong Kong's computer centers can be a bit intimidating at first. They're crowded, airless, cluttered and confusing (with one exception; more on that below). There are so many little shops jammed in together you're often not sure where to begin.

So first, allow me to offer some general encouragement: as a rule I'm not at all fond of this kind of shopping, and I often hate the thought of actually going to a computer center, but usually once I'm there I find it's not so bad after all. Even if you're just visiting Hong Kong, you shouldn't shy away from computer centers if you've got some products in mind.

You might still be thinking you want to play it safe and buy from an ordinary store, since questions about computer centers inevitably arise: Are things really that much cheaper in them? Is it worth the time spent comparison shopping? Do you need to bargain? Is the merchandise solid? Are you going to get cheated?

Let's address these one by one, and then you can make up your own mind whether it's worth venturing into a shopping center that feels like it's catering to the Borg as customers.

Are things really cheaper in Hong Kong's computer centers? Yes, with a few exceptions. For most name-brand products, and 'assemble to order' PCs, you're not going to beat the prices computer centers offer by shopping around at chain stores or going straight to the manufacturers. Computer centers really are discount outlets. One major exception is Apple products. (But isn't that always the case, fellow Appleonians? We suffer for our dignified loyalty, we do.)

Is it worth comparison shopping? I'd say it's worth doing a looking about in a computer center in moderation, but definitely not worth spending hours and hours on it. You will go crazy if you try to price a common item at every shop that sells it. Computer centers are intense microcosms of free enterprise, and since most shops post their prices openly on signs, fliers, and often the products themselves, a 'going rate' emerges for just about any item, as you'll quickly discover. That said, the individual shops do have sales and specials, so a bit of wandering around totting up prices may well be rewarded. But I've found that the price differences within a single computer center are often minimal, and I can't recall ever finding out in retrospect that I'd grossly overpaid for anything. The exception to this rule of thumb is to remember that each center forms its own little economy; some centers therefore are just cheaper in general than others. More on this below.

Should you bargain? Sure, if you like, but I've not noted a lot of price flexibility of late. It seems to me in the past it was easier to get routine price breaks, but now, especially for smaller items, you're likely to pay the stated price. This may be a case of me just not wanting to bother with haggling, or of a gormless gwailo getting taken advantage of, but I doubt it. The exception: if you're buying a whole computer system or other expensive items, I do suggest making a real go at bargaining. You may be able to get a lower price, or better throw-in features/software, or both. Readers, any thoughts/experiences on this topic?

Is the merchandise 'the real thing'? Yes, again so far as I know. Most of the products you'll see in Hong Kong computer centers are completely legitimate. They'll be in their manufacturer's packaging, and will come with warranties (although see Mr B's article for some cautions in this area). The only caveat to this I've heard is that sometimes the cut-rate blank DVDs and CDs may be 'factory extras' that could be slightly more likely to be flawed than those sold in mainstream stores. That said, I've bought hundreds of blank CDs and DVDs in Hong Kong computer centers, and can remember only one genuinely bad disk, so I don't even bother worrying about this.

Am I going to get cheated? It's doubtful. My impressions of most staff in these shops is that they may lack some of the social graces, but few are out to get you. In fact, on my most recent trip to 298 in Wanchai, I shopped in at least half a dozen places, and everybody I talked to was civil and at least reasonably helpful. Another anecdote: earlier this year I bought some blank DVDs in a shop in Mongkok Computer Centre. For reasons too tedious to recount, it turned out they weren't the type I needed. I'd discovered this before I opened the package, so I decided I'd try to take them back to the shop and exchange them (I did have my receipt, too). I presented my situation to the young woman running the shop, and was all ready to pick out some other merchandise in exchange, but she cut me off and insisted that I take a cash rebate, straight up. She then offered to break up a package of ten blank disks from a different manufacturer if I wanted to buy just one to try it out. Good customer service, that, and I've been buying blank disks there ever since.

Now, let's finish with a quick rundown of the main computer centers in Hong Kong.

I'm going to list just five of them, as these are the ones I've been to and heard of. If anyone knows of any other places where it's worth looking, do let us know.

All of these places are broadly similar in that they've got lots of shops, a wide selection of products, and internally-competitive prices. They aren't identical, however, so I'll try to mention salient differences so you can choose the one you think best suits your needs.

Golden Computer Arcade / Centre. In some ways, this is the Mothership of Hong Kong computer centers. It's big, cheap, and has the most, uh, informal atmosphere. Disadvantages are its slightly out-of-the-tourist's-way location (although it's very easy to get to via MTR) and its mild seediness. To get there catch the MTR on the Tsuen Wan line to Sham Shui Po station, then take exit D2. As you come up to street level, you'll see the building across the street diagonally to your left.

The first entrance you'll see is on the corner facing you, and leads into the Golden Computer Arcade. As you walk in you have the choice of walking up to the Ground Floor (G/F), or down to the Lower Ground Floor (LG/F). LG/F is the place to go for computer consumables and accessories, including printer cartridges, blank CDs and DVDs, speakers, cases, and books. If you head up to G/F you'll find most of the gaming stalls (Xbox, PSP, PS2), and lots of cables and cabling accessories.

If instead of entering the doorway to the Golden Computer Arcade you keep walking straight (so the building is on your left), a couple of shops along you'll see an entrance on the left marked 'Golden Computer Centre'. Walk up the staircase to the first floor and you'll find a whole new selection of shops. These specialise in all the parts needed to build PCs (RAM / drives / motherboards etc, as well as printers, scanners, notebook PCs and custom-built PCs.

Mongkok Computer Center. All the standard current computer stuff on offer in the throbbing heart of Mongkok. You can reach it by taking MTR or other public transport to Mongkok, then working your way over to Nelson Street -- go straight out of MTR exit E2, and it's a couple of blocks up on the right (it doesn't really have a street number on the outside, but it's on Nelson Street in the block between Tung Choi Street and Fa Yuen Street). This is the center I frequent most, and I find it's almost indistinguishable -- literally; it looks just the same inside -- as . . .

298 Hennessy Road. Very convenient for those staying/living on HK Island, 298 is still pretty cheap and cheerful, although a notch up in price from Golden Arcade. It's not hard to get to -- the name is the address -- but it's actually about midway between Wanchai and Causeway Bay MTR stations, so it's a bit of a hike from either one.

Wanchai Computer Center. This slightly more upscale computer center is a bit smaller than some of the others, but still has a good range of products and is very convenient to get to. Simply take exit A4 from the Wanchai MTR station, and the entrance is just on your left. Map & directions.

Windsor House. On the upper floors of Windsor House in Causeway Bay, right across Great George Street from Ikea (use MTR Exit E), you can find the 'upper class' option amongst Hong Kong's computer centers. It's physically much more pleasant to shop in, with roomy aisles between shops. You also pay for the privilege, unfortunately, as prices here are definitely higher than the other options.

There are also of course many, many computer shops scattered around town, but for most of us these five computer centers will do the job best.

Below I've included some more specific tips and notes on shopping in computer centers from one of our readers, and from Mr B.

Dave says:

Another great place for computer stuff (and surround sound systems) is the Golden Arcade in Sham Shui Po (across Cheung Sha Wan Road from the Ap Liu Gai market).

This is probably the cheapest place in Hong Kong for computer hardware, but check around first -- prices vary around the shops. The main hardware section is on the second floor -- turn left from the MTR and walk down towards the McDonalds, then turn right until you see an entrance which goes up a few steps and then has an escalator going up. This will bring you up to about 100 small shops selling the latest hardware and a small amount of software. (More software, and especially the *ahem* 'cheaper' software is available downstairs in the basement.)

There's a middle floor which sells playstations and similar as well as some really odd stuff, which is definitely worth a browse if you're a geek.) i.e., if you want dual Xeon boards, PC104 boards, redundant power supply hardware, Barcode readers, etc, this is yer place.

Centralfield is pretty representative, although it's not the cheapest there.

If you're nervous about going up there, Wanchai Computer Center, which is just above the Wanchai MTR, is a small bit more expensive (maybe 5%), but has more or less the same things. It's a bit more mainstream, though, so you won't find the really way out stuff, but for PC stuff, it's fine. Not much Mac stuff, though.

If you want to get Linux, *BSD stuff, you can find it in Sham Shui Po, but broadband connections are cheap, and it's usually easier and cheaper to just download it.

All the centres have PC makers who will build you a PC to your specs. They usually have paper fliers detailing their models, but you can always request different disks, memory, processors, graphics, case, etc.

And don't worry about whether or not they speak English. They speak MoneyStuff: they have Stuff and want Money, you have Money and want Stuff. A deal will be made. If they don't speak English, they'll call someone who does (a schoolboy), or just do the old numbers on a calculator trick. A Hong Kong shopkeeper will not let anything trivial like a lack of a common language come between him and a deal.

You should have a good idea of what things cost. Wander around the center before deciding what to buy and where to buy it. Don't be afraid to be baffled by what's on offer. Your best bet might be to look at all the motherboards (for example) and then go away and look them up on http://www.tomshardware.com to see how they all rate before making a decision. (Not that tomshardware.com is the best site, but it's reasonable.)

And, you can *always* bargain, or try to bargain. They may not always bargain, as their margins are really tight, especially for PC hardware, but it's always worth a try.

Them: 'This, 500 dollar.'

You: 'Wah! Yam mo gow chou ah! Hou Tsin ah! Tse bak M-sap man-ah! (You're kidding, that's too expensive! 450 dollars)'

Them: 'Your Cantonese sucks and it's still 500 dollars.'

Mr B replies:

Dave,

I was thinking we needed to add something about PCs -- so thanks for doing such a great job. A couple of extra odds and ends...

I had a PC made a couple of weeks back, and was originally thinking of buying the parts and building it myself. I found they only charge HKD100-150 extra to assemble all the parts, so I was happy to let them do it. I used ICE Computer Company, shop 168 in Wanchai Computer Centre. The guy was slightly (1 or 2%) more expensive than the other shops, but very helpful and speaks good English. (Compare another shop on the floor above where I stood for sometime until, after their mumbling about who would have to deal with the gweilo, someone picked the short straw and came over to deal with me.) The machine was bought to burn DVDs of baby B (next purchase will be the video camera), so I was glad to be able to spec out what I wanted.

If you're going to be buying the *ahem* 'cheaper' software' that Dave mentions, you'll probably be asked to hand over money and come back in 20 minutes. The 20 minutes usually turns into 40, but I haven't heard of anyone being ripped off (indeed you might even be surprised by the service - I took a friend there to buy Mac software last week, and they even told him not to buy one disk as it didn't support his OS version !)

If you're looking for Notebook PCs or PDAs, Wanchai Computer Centre probably has a better selection than the Golden Arcade.

If you're staying on HK Island and are looking for the Golden Arcade experience, head along Hennessy Road to number 298 and go up the escalator. The little shops there are between Golden Arcade and Wanchai Computer Centre in price. You'll also find shops selling dodgy R-rated DVDs, the 'cheaper software', and recently some shops have opened up selling second-hand business equipment (Intel Servers, Sun, routers, etc).

Cheers, MrB

Finally, one note for Apple aficionados: I don't know the current situation in Golden Arcade or Wanchai Computer Center, but right now the Mongkok Computer Center has no shops selling Apple products (other than Ipods, of course -- they're so ubiquitous here you can probably buy them from stinky tofu hawkers). 298 and Windsor House each have at least one Apple-oriented shop. You'll also now find Apple machines on sale at Fortress, one of Hong Kong's biggest mainstream electronics shops, but more on that scene in part II of this article.

The Batgung Guide to shopping in Hong Kong

Mr Tall — Thu, 05 Feb 2004 05:10:56 +0000

I'll admit to a giant streak of bias in writing this article: I'm not a great shopping fan unless the outing in question involves getting some nice guy-oriented stuff for me, me, me. Not very noble, I know, but we all have our little weaknesses. So, to those of you who see shopping as a necessary evil, with minor selfish exceptions: join me for a sympathetic tour of Hong Kong's major shopping areas. Those of you who shop because you think it's fun may find some useful tips here too, but I offer no promises of satisfaction!

So away we go . . .

Causeway Bay. Sooner or later, almost everyone in Hong Kong ends up shopping in Causeway Bay. It's a sight to see on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, with crowds so dense they seem almost stationary.

There are several foci for Causeway Bay shopping. Times Square, on the edge of Causeway Bay proper, is the quintessential Hong Kong mall: crowded, middle-class-oriented, all major local and international chain stores thoroughly represented. Its two department stores, i.e. Lane Crawford (does any enterprise on this planet provide a more banal conglomeration of pretentious, overpriced consumer goods?) and an undersized Marks and Spencer (at least they've got decent socks and my favorite muesli) fail to inspire. The rest of Causeway Bay revolves around the spectacularly congested intersection on Hennessy Road anchored by the colossal Sogo department store, and on another epicenter at the end of Great George Street, where you find Windsor House, with its children's stores on one other side of the street, and Ikea on the other.

So if you're a guy who's been roped into shopping in Causeway Bay, it's time to face facts: you're not likely to have a great time. Causeway Bay is the mass-market fashion center of the city, and there's little that's guy-friendly in amongst the endless boutiques.

So where can you find respite from your time of trial? A suggestion, if I may. Your paramount need will be to find someplace where you can leave the crowds behind, and engage is dome quiet contemplation spurred on by hops and fermented barley. Something suitably fortifying at the Dickens Bar, in the basement of the Excelsior Hotel, is a heathy option, although don't ever, ever go there while the Rugby 7s are on -- I've warned you. Another pleasant place, and much less crowded, is the Lee Gardens building. There's a nice grocery store -- Gourmet -- in the basement, and up on the 3rd floor there's a Pacific Coffee Company outlet that seems a bit under-utilized, making it a treasure in Causeway Bay.

You might also want escape to do a bit of geek-oriented shopping on the 12-15th floors of Windsor House. There are three floors of IT-oriented shops there, although they're a bit pricier than some of those mentioned in our guides to buying electronic goods and computers.

Mongkok. If Causeway Bay is a meat-grinder, Mongkok is a food processor set on 'liquefy'. I don't recommend shopping there anytime from lunchtime on Saturday right through Sunday night: the crowds are just too overwhelming. It is worth going there at a busy time, however, if you want to absorb the spectacle of Hong Kong's real heart beating at its most frenzied pace.

Mongkok has no real center; it's a grid of streets lined with wall-to-wall shops. But it's not all the same stuff over and over. Mongkok has quite clearly delineated sub-areas that concentrate on particular products -- some of which, you will be happy to hear, can be quite diverting. For example, on the 'wrong' side of Nathan Road, i.e. along Portland Street, you will find Hong Kong's best selection of household decorating shops, from the namby-pamby ones selling curtains and bathroom tiles, to much more manly ones with plumbing fittings and such. If you're into hiking/the outdoors, you'll find a number of very good shops along Sai Yee Street, scattered amongst the endless sports shoes places. There are also the teeming street stalls and surrounding shops comprising Women's Street (or 'Ladies' Market', as you sometimes see it translated): in contradistinction to its hurtful, hegemonic name, which makes me feel marginalized, oppressed, and excluded, this area's got lots of export stores packed with Guy Clothes, for cheap. Well worth a look for T-shirts, polo shirts, shorts, cargo pants, and odd-smelling-until-laundered sweaters, often in not just large, but positively American sizes (I once came across a 6XL shirt in a shop there!).

You're not going to find too many elegant lounges for sherry-sipping down on the streets of Mongkok, but there are innumerable noodle shops and chaan tengs and other places to take a short break -- and I emphasize 'short', because most of these places will put you on a stool at best, and expect you to slurp up your bowlful and get the hell out of there to make way for the next customer.

You can also escape the crush of Mongkok by disappearing upwards, i.e. into one or the other of the shopping malls at either end of the district: Langham Place or Grand Century Place (NB: website seems to be in Chinese only). In particular, I'd recommend an ascent to either the 4th or the 13th floors of Langham Place Mall, which have lots of food places and even a few bars; the 13th floor especially is an oasis of calm compared to the rest of Mongkok.

Pacific Place (Admiralty) . Expat shopping heaven, if such a thing existed. Actually, there's nothing really wrong with PP, but there aren't many decent Guy shops, and there are always far too many pompous Bobos pushing around those ridiculously undersized shopping carts in Great supermarket. Attention Great shoppers: you cannot avoid looking like a twit if you use the shopping aids Great provides. Holding a basket on your arm makes you look like Little Red Riding Hood bringing some nice sea salt to sprinkle over Grandma, and pushing one of those trolleys brings us back to your days as a three-year-old strolling your Tinkly Tina doll. The guy solution? Grasp as many bottles of Old Speckled Hen ale as you can with your own two hands, and march proudly to the checkouts. Seriously, Great has a lot of food you can't get elsewhere, and is worth visiting now and then for cheese, sausages, pâté, and so on. You might want to check out how much things cost at places like Great, though!

Festival Walk (Kowloon Tong) . If you must go mall-shopping, I think Festival Walk's the best choice in town. It's roomier and more pleasant than Hong Kong's other big malls, and never feels oppressively crowded. Very nice Aigle, Timberland, and Pro-Camfis shops, with their Hemmingway-esque elephant-shooting clothes. Huge Page One bookstore, although it's pretty heavily mass-market, and not cheap. Festival Walk's hideous Park N Shop has been upgraded to a new and higher plane of existence as 'Taste'. Its offerings and ambience fall somewhere between Great in Pacific Place, and an ordinary PnS branch. It's a huge improvement, although still very crowded at times.

Harbour City, which comprises Ocean Terminal, Ocean Centre, and Gateway (Tsim Sha Tsui). I don't know if this is the biggest shopping complex in the whole wide world, but you will certainly think it is if you go there. It's also a maze: I've been there more times than I would care to admit, and still get lost regularly. Lots and lots and even more stores, many upscale. The axis of this complex comprises a pair of impressively long corridors of shops spanning the considerable distance from Ocean Terminal, near Star Ferry, all the way to the far end of Gateway, which is virtually in Jordan. Whenever I walk down one of these alimentary canals of capitalism, I start feeling as if I'm in that Star Trek episode in which Jim and the crew land on that super-overpopulated planet where hordes of grey people in jumpsuits shuffle past the windows ceaselessly, because there's no place to sit down.

At least being in this part of town is good for diversions, provided you can convince your shopping mate(s) to get the heck out of the mall complex itself. That is, the rest of Tsim Sha Tsui has lots of interesting bars, restaurants, copy watch hawkers, and so forth, but if you're trapped in this labyrinth of consumerism, you'll never see them. Your saving grace is that if you're traveling by MTR, you have to cross a good chunk of TST to get to OceanHarbourGateCentre, so you'll have many chances to make 'wrong turns' and burn some time. But if you take Star Ferry over, Ocean Terminal's looming right there in front of you, and there's no escape.

Central. For some reason, Central usually doesn't come up in discussions of 'where to shop in Hong Kong', unless you're a tai-tai (i.e. upper-class society lady) who only buys designer labels. But in fact it's well-balanced in shopping terms: a range of department stores (Marks and Spencer's, H & M, and a rather disappointing Harvey Nichols); little market-style lanes, between Des Vouex Road and Queen's Road; an airy new mall (IFC II); a high-end older mall that's being comprehensively redone (Landmark); and quick access to the arts-and-crafts-and-antiques shops up on Hollywood Road. There's also the rather good 360 food hall/food court in Landmark. Wait! What's wrong with me? I'm an animated Chamber of Commerce ad! Mrs Tall, what's in those vitamins you've been giving me?

Anyway, with a modicum of self-respect reasserted, I can assure you that escaping Central-based shopping is easy: you can get lost in HMV, or stumble into one of the pubs scattered around the office blocks. If you're of the type, you can head up the hill to the drinking-and-posing zone of Lan Kwai Fong, but I'd recommend a step onto the escalator and a little trip up to Soho instead. It's still a pretense-intensive zone, yes, but it has a number of respectable watering holes and some reasonable restaurants.

Stanley. The famous market here is often teeming with tourists, but it usually stays tolerable, even if it's pretty slow going working your way through the crowded market stalls. Stanley's also got a solid set of options for guys. A number of shops selling export clothes have reappeared, after a period in which the whole market seemed to be devoted to selling the kind of 'flowing' outfits middle-aged western ladies find evocative of The Exotic East (there are still plenty of these shops too, if that's your thing). There's even a shop that sells nothing but rugby kit. But the best thing about Stanley is its proliferation of eateries and drinkeries, both in the little lanes up behind the market proper, and then all along the waterfront, culminating in the rather more industrial-scale places in the re-assembled Murray Building.

New Town Plaza, Shatin, and Tai Koo Shing in the eastern part of HK island. Both of these are essentially giant suburban malls: not interesting per se, but admittedly maybe good for actually buying things. Mrs Tall likes shopping in TKS's enormous acronymic department stores (UNI and JUSCO), and I love her anyway.

Buying Electronic Goods in Hong Kong

mrb — Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:24:38 +0000

When friends and colleagues visit HK, they often ask where's the best place to buy a new camera / walkman / notebook PC / etc. If you're visiting HK with shopping in mind, here are a few tips for you ...

Is it really cheaper here?

Seems obvious, but check the prices before you leave home (and be sure to check what that price includes, as adding costs for cases, batteries, etc., can make a big difference.) A rule of thumb seems to be that visitors from the US can often buy goods at similar prices back home, while visitors from Australia find prices here significantly cheaper.

How much cheaper is worthwhile?

If something goes wrong with your purchase after you get home, there could be major hassle in getting it fixed (though also look at the "warranties" item below). If you are only saving tens of dollars, and it is an item with more chance of something going wrong (e.g. a video camera), make sure that any $$$ you will save won't be outweighed by you worrying that something will go wrong.

What warranty should you be looking for?

There are three common options for warranties:

International Warranty
Local warranty
No warranty (with possible shop warranty)

International Warranty: This is your best option, as it means that even though you buy in HK, the warranty means that any repairs will be carried out in your home country under warranty. This tends to be limited to more expensive items, like notebook PCs.

Local Warranty: If something goes wrong during the warranty period, you'll need to return it to a HK address to get it fixed. That's ok if you travel here regularly for business, but otherwise this is probably the same as "No Warranty" below.

No Warranty: Sometimes you'll see two pieces of the same product next to each other, but one has a much lower price (20% off or more) than the other. You'll probably find that the cheaper one is a parallel import, which means it was bought direct from another country, and not from the official HK distributor. (You'll also hear these called "grey market" copies, or "soei faw" in Cantonese). The obvious difference is that the parallel import is much cheaper, and probably has no warranty. Other side-effects may be that the manuals and any software that ship with the product are in another language (most likely Japanese), so check that you'll be able to use the product.

Do you need a warranty?

Even if a product has no warranty, the shop will usually allow an exchange within 7 or 14 days if the product does not work properly. So if it's something you can use thoroughly for a week before you leave HK (e.g. a digital camera), you may not need the full one year warranty. This is especially true for items that are unlikely to fail, e.g. Compact Flash cards generally work or they don't. (Remember to keep all the packaging, and avoid any wear and scratches, to make it easy to exchange).

Where to buy?

If you're here on vacation, there's a good chance you're staying in Tsim Sha Tsui (TST). As a prime tourist area, it has many shops selling electronic goods. Although I am sure that the majority of the shops there are safe, there are also regular stories in the press about tourists being ripped off in some way or other. So unless you have been introduced to the shop by a local friend, just be careful that you are getting exactly what you have paid for.

Instead I'd suggest you start with one of the large chains of stores, e.g. Fortress or Broadway. These will give you an idea of local prices to compare against any other offers you receive.

I usually go from there to Citicall in Central, and buy there. Looking on the web, I see they actually have several outlets:

Citicall Ltd. Shop 3-4, G/F, Mongkok City Centre, 74-78 Sai Yeung St. South, Mongkok, KLN.
Citicall Ltd. G/F, 60 Russell St., Causeway Bay, HK.
Citicall Ltd. G/F, Hung Kei Mansion, 5-8 Queen Victoria Street, Central
Citicall Ltd. Shop G06-07, G/F, Hollywood Plaza, 610 Nathan Road, Mongkok

If you like haggling, you can probably find things a bit cheaper in Mong Kok There's a building on the left of exit E2 from the Mong Kok MTR, opposite the Bank Centre, that has several floors of electronics stores. I bought there once - prices with warranty were slightly cheaper than Citicall, but I blew what little savings there were on the taxi ride home! They did have some cheaper parallel imports though, if that is what you are looking for.

If you have any good stores to recommend, please send them in.